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Post by p on Jan 18, 2017 21:46:34 GMT -5
I love ACC however the drawback with them is the carbon outer layer (FMJ has alloy outer) When shooting into my material packed bale target the material seems to burn onto the carbon and is darn annoying having to remove it between rounds. One of the reasons i stay away from carbon arrows. The aluminum jacket makes them many times easier to pull from the target. Not to mention if you shoot groups and you smack a carbon arrow there is that risk of getting some wonderful carbon splinters in your hand that feel so lovely when pulling them from targets. I've shot a bazillion arrows and not once have I ever had a splinter from pulling an arrow. I guess I'm not shooting tight enough groups. Lol!
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Post by enkriss on Jan 18, 2017 21:50:36 GMT -5
The aluminum jacket makes them many times easier to pull from the target. Not to mention if you shoot groups and you smack a carbon arrow there is that risk of getting some wonderful carbon splinters in your hand that feel so lovely when pulling them from targets. I've shot a bazillion arrows and not once have I ever had a splinter from pulling an arrow. I guess I'm not shooting tight enough groups. Lol! I guess not... I have gotten carbon splinters on plenty of occasions.
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Post by southshorerat on Jan 18, 2017 22:12:05 GMT -5
So you don't like BE arrows? I was going to give them a try Didn't say that. But I'll never shoot a carnivore again and I wouldn't shoot the components that come with a carnivore or rampage. They are not quality components. The nocks on higher performance bows will not hold up. You'll find they will start to become very loose on the string to the point they'll fall off during the draw. So there's that. I didn't have issues with the shaft themselves on the rampages. I just wouldn't list an arrow as top end that has had some of the issues they've had and that aside I couldn't list one top when you have to upgrade components. Top end arrows should come with top end components. You had a bad experience I get that, but you should understand I have sold between 250k and 350k of black eagle arrows over the last 5 years this last year being my biggest year yet and have been called with maybe 7 or 8 sets that had issues over the five year time frame. Not trying to be rude but who has the biggest picture here? I believe I do, 1000s of customers that are happy with black eagle arrows and in 5 years 7 or 8 that had issues is almost irrelevant looking at the size of the sampling I have from across the country. There are things to consider, what glue was used to install the inserts in the arrows that failed. How were the arrows treated, were groups shot with them. Again all I am saying is a very small sampling of folks that had issues is not a good measure of an arrows durability. 1000s of folks giving feed back over a 5 year period I believe is a fairly accurate measure of what are good or bad arrows.
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Post by 12ringking on Jan 18, 2017 22:37:31 GMT -5
So 5mm FMJs are where it's at huh?
I don't keep up with this stuff near as much as I use to. I'm looking to get some new sticks.
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Post by tsm213 on Jan 18, 2017 22:42:49 GMT -5
I think Acc and fmjs have the most consistent spine by design. I'm sure I read that in Jerrys stuff at one point lol.
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Post by whack on Jan 19, 2017 6:03:42 GMT -5
Didn't say that. But I'll never shoot a carnivore again and I wouldn't shoot the components that come with a carnivore or rampage. They are not quality components. The nocks on higher performance bows will not hold up. You'll find they will start to become very loose on the string to the point they'll fall off during the draw. So there's that. I didn't have issues with the shaft themselves on the rampages. I just wouldn't list an arrow as top end that has had some of the issues they've had and that aside I couldn't list one top when you have to upgrade components. Top end arrows should come with top end components. You had a bad experience I get that, but you should understand I have sold between 250k and 350k of black eagle arrows over the last 5 years this last year being my biggest year yet and have been called with maybe 7 or 8 sets that had issues over the five year time frame. Not trying to be rude but who has the biggest picture here? I believe I do, 1000s of customers that are happy with black eagle arrows and in 5 years 7 or 8 that had issues is almost irrelevant looking at the size of the sampling I have from across the country. There are things to consider, what glue was used to install the inserts in the arrows that failed. How were the arrows treated, were groups shot with them. Again all I am saying is a very small sampling of folks that had issues is not a good measure of an arrows durability. 1000s of folks giving feed back over a 5 year period I believe is a fairly accurate measure of what are good or bad arrows. You can rationalize it all you want. I don't care if you've sold enough arrows to bank roll a private island and fly a bea flag over it. You want to call them top end bc you sell a lot of em is fine. Selling a lot of something doesn't make them top end way more chevys than Ferrari's sold. They are just average shafts. Their components below average. That's what's great you get to have your opinion and I get to have mine. You see me as some disgruntled guy who shot em one time and got a bad arrow. Nope. I shot em for a few years shot a few different bea's and they are just average. Heck they still have my picture on their website they must like me lol. I haven't sat here and trashed bea as it would appear you think I've done. I've just argued that they aren't a top end brand. They are average. I would shoot a rampage again if I wanted a lighter arrow set up. I'd just have to upgrade the nocks on it.
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Post by trial153 on Jan 19, 2017 8:25:02 GMT -5
I am not brand loyal when it comes to arrows. In fact for the most part I don't even like a single arrow across a range of spines. Here is what I like and what has worked for me.
400 spine ...390 ACC prohunters. I have zero complaints with this shaft. It's durable and very consistent. I don't recall ever building an ACC that wasn't 100% useable for anything I wanted. I like them so much that I have about two dozen cut and fletched and have about 6 or 8 dozen shafts new and uncut stock piled. If I have any complaint with ACC is that I would like a heavier insert then the HP2 .
In 350 ... I like BEA Rampages. I install brass HITS, VPA flanged collars and X nocks. I second what was said about the components they suck. The half outs sucks. the nocks are cheap and don't last. The aren't the most durable staff I ever used, however I can not complain considering the weight per inch and in fairness they compare well to other similar shafts of that weight in so far as durability. One thing that makes up for any short comings is that they are incredibly consistent arrow to arrow. I build a dozen and I can use a dozen. I wish a good SS nock collar was available for them. I also like 340 prohunters as well.... Last in 350 I have used GT velocity pros and ultra lights lights. They are almost exactly opposite the BEA rampages. Extremely tough but they lack consistency. I have had bad batches and sometimes even arrows that seem perfect will be a flier. The Fact weights are a great addition. All that said they have taken a back seat to other brands because I do t feel they fly as well.
In .300 spine I have two go too arrows right now BEA rampages built like I stated about and also BEA Spartans. I only been playing the the Spartans for a couple months however they might the an arrow that I am most impressed with over the last few years. They have none of the short comings of the rampages, they are tougher and more durable and have excellent components, the nock collar and SS insert are about as good as you will find. Arrow to arrow they are excellent consistent and reliable. I wish they were a smaller diameter.
Some other arrows that I have used. Easton Hexx....decent shafts, seemed consistent. They weren't overly tough however. Seemed like they are on par for lighter GPI shafts. Easton AXIS, they could gives these back to the Indians. Bought a couple dozen and by the time I sorted and shot them I was lucky to have one in two arrows that I would have the confidence to hunt with. Easton FMJ are well made consistent shaft however their specs don't allow me to build a heavy FOC shaft that seems to work well with my set ups. Also on Easton I stay clear of any thing deep six as well. Weak skinny broadhead ferules I avoid like a plague. And no amount of positive attributes of the shafts are worth that week link.
Gold Tips in general have been very disappointing and inconsistent. When they are good they good. And won't fine a tougher more durable shaft pretty much across their whole line up. However I their QC sucks on the manufacturing end.
Just my take on what I have experienced over the past few years.
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Post by 12ringking on Jan 19, 2017 14:37:17 GMT -5
I have a 60 lb 27.5" DL Bowtech Invasion... For the most part I have had success with .400 spine.
I'm thinking I want to go heavier than what I've been using. I'd like to build an arrow in the 450 grain weight range.
Should I go up to 340 spine FMJ's with heavier inserts? I use 125 grain tips. Just curious what y'all think would work well...
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Post by whack on Jan 19, 2017 14:45:56 GMT -5
Fmj's seemed spined a lil heavy the 400 spine will work unless your wanting to add more foc then go to 340
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Post by killermidget on Jan 19, 2017 14:57:29 GMT -5
I shoot 28" draw and my 60lb bows tune fine with the 400 spine whether I have a 100 or 125 grain tip with the standard insert. When I experimented with the brass inserts I had to go to the 340 spine. This also held true for my 65 lb bows.
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Post by 12ringking on Jan 19, 2017 15:13:36 GMT -5
I shoot 28" draw and my 60lb bows tune fine with the 400 spine whether I have a 100 or 125 grain tip with the standard insert. When I experimented with the brass inserts I had to go to the 340 spine. This also held true for my 65 lb bows. This is what I'm wanting to do.
Yes whack, I'm wanting to add more FOC
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Post by killermidget on Jan 19, 2017 15:18:40 GMT -5
Ask Jerry what he would do. What I did worked for me, but I don't know all of the tricks.....
Haha! I went through all of that testing and then turned around and bought some lighted nocks..... back to the drawing board now to get my foc back!
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Post by 12ringking on Jan 19, 2017 20:04:01 GMT -5
I have a 60 lb 27.5" DL Bowtech Invasion... For the most part I have had success with .400 spine. I'm thinking I want to go heavier than what I've been using. I'd like to build an arrow in the 450 grain weight range. Should I go up to 340 spine FMJ's with heavier inserts? I use 125 grain tips. Just curious what y'all think would work well... Well jerry, what would you suggest?
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Post by trial153 on Jan 19, 2017 20:06:07 GMT -5
I have a 60 lb 27.5" DL Bowtech Invasion... For the most part I have had success with .400 spine. I'm thinking I want to go heavier than what I've been using. I'd like to build an arrow in the 450 grain weight range. Should I go up to 340 spine FMJ's with heavier inserts? I use 125 grain tips. Just curious what y'all think would work well... Well jerry, what would you suggest? How long a shaft do you want to use
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Post by 12ringking on Jan 19, 2017 20:20:54 GMT -5
Well jerry, what would you suggest? How long a shaft do you want to use 27.5. I usually like them to be my draw length to keep the broadhead out in front of my hand. But I'm flexible. On SSA website... there's a weighted insert option for an additional 50 grains. With 125 grain heads it would be 175. Wonder if that would be too much with just xnocks, blazers on a 27.5" 340 FMJ
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Post by southshorerat on Jan 19, 2017 20:53:35 GMT -5
You had a bad experience I get that, but you should understand I have sold between 250k and 350k of black eagle arrows over the last 5 years this last year being my biggest year yet and have been called with maybe 7 or 8 sets that had issues over the five year time frame. Not trying to be rude but who has the biggest picture here? I believe I do, 1000s of customers that are happy with black eagle arrows and in 5 years 7 or 8 that had issues is almost irrelevant looking at the size of the sampling I have from across the country. There are things to consider, what glue was used to install the inserts in the arrows that failed. How were the arrows treated, were groups shot with them. Again all I am saying is a very small sampling of folks that had issues is not a good measure of an arrows durability. 1000s of folks giving feed back over a 5 year period I believe is a fairly accurate measure of what are good or bad arrows. You can rationalize it all you want. I don't care if you've sold enough arrows to bank roll a private island and fly a bea flag over it. You want to call them top end bc you sell a lot of em is fine. Selling a lot of something doesn't make them top end way more chevys than Ferrari's sold. They are just average shafts. Their components below average. That's what's great you get to have your opinion and I get to have mine. You see me as some disgruntled guy who shot em one time and got a bad arrow. Nope. I shot em for a few years shot a few different bea's and they are just average. Heck they still have my picture on their website they must like me lol. I haven't sat here and trashed bea as it would appear you think I've done. I've just argued that they aren't a top end brand. They are average. I would shoot a rampage again if I wanted a lighter arrow set up. I'd just have to upgrade the nocks on it. Im sorry I wasnt clear and caused you to misunderstand my intent. I havent thought you trashed them, I havent thought you are disgruntled. I know you are basing your opinion on real honest and accurate issues you and others have had with Black Eagle Arrows. I didnt say selling a lot of them proves they are top end, I said out of nearly 100k wholesale of black eagle arrow purchases which equates to about $200k in sales I had two or three orders that has some issues. I dont feel I was rationalizing anything I based my opinion on the cold hard facts of compiled measurable data. The orders that came back equaled approx. $500 did the math to the return dollars to the sales dollars of $200k in arrows which tells me that I have around 1/4 of 1% of my sales of black eagle shafts had issues. add into the equations some of the tightest specs in the industry and I have no choice but give them a top rating again based on solid data. I hope I have cleared up my statements and you can see the reason I feel they are some of the higher end arrows on the market.
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Post by southshorerat on Jan 19, 2017 20:56:02 GMT -5
I have a 60 lb 27.5" DL Bowtech Invasion... For the most part I have had success with .400 spine. I'm thinking I want to go heavier than what I've been using. I'd like to build an arrow in the 450 grain weight range. Should I go up to 340 spine FMJ's with heavier inserts? I use 125 grain tips. Just curious what y'all think would work well... Well jerry, what would you suggest? Give me a call in the shop one day and I will run your setup in On Target II and give you some options. Sometimes posting suggested setups is like poking a hornets nest there are tons of opinions on what are the best arrows, spine etc for a given setup
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Post by whack on Jan 19, 2017 21:11:01 GMT -5
I don't anyone that's going to send back a dozen arrows bc the nocks sucked. They'll just go get new nocks. It's what I did. I didn't send my shafts back that split on the insert end either I just put the fmj's back in the quiver. (I did inform them of the issue and didn't ask for a refund either) I would assume most do the same to. By these standards I was a satisfied customer. Just clearing up my end too. I'll let ya get back to helping folks.
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Post by 12ringking on Jan 19, 2017 21:31:02 GMT -5
Well jerry, what would you suggest? Give me a call in the shop one day and I will run your setup in On Target II and give you some options. Sometimes posting suggested setups is like poking a hornets nest there are tons of opinions on what are the best arrows, spine etc for a given setup Will do!
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Post by enkriss on Jan 19, 2017 22:13:44 GMT -5
How long a shaft do you want to use 27.5. I usually like them to be my draw length to keep the broadhead out in front of my hand. But I'm flexible. On SSA website... there's a weighted insert option for an additional 50 grains. With 125 grain heads it would be 175. Wonder if that would be too much with just xnocks, blazers on a 27.5" 340 FMJ If you want to hack a bit of that shaft off 400s would be nice with a good amount of FOC...443gr Otherwise keep the regular hits and you are still good with 400s 413 gr
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