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Post by enewman on Jul 10, 2016 7:47:45 GMT -5
This is the 12 factores Dr ashby came up with for building a penetrating arrow
1. Structural Integrity
2. Arrow Flight
3. Arrow FOC (Forward of Center)
4. Broadhead Mechanical Advantage
5. Shaft Diameter to Ferrule Diameter Ratio
6. Arrow Mass or Weight
7. Broadhead Edge Finish
8. Shaft Profile
9. Broadhead/Arrow Silhouette
10. Type of Edge Bevel
11. Tip Design
12. Arrow Mass 650 and Above
Here is my modification to it.
This is my opinion.
1. Structural Integrity
2. Arrow Flight
3. Arrow FOC (Forward of Center). This is mainly for stabilization of shaft.
4. Broadhead Mechanical Advantage
Broadhead Edge Finish
Type of Edge Bevel
Tip Design
5. Arrow Mass or Weight
6. Shaft Diameter to Ferrule Diameter Ratio
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Post by fergeris on Jul 10, 2016 9:09:05 GMT -5
I agree to that
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Post by tsm213 on Jul 10, 2016 11:23:33 GMT -5
My list also has price and availability.
I like quality stuff but I'm tired of ordering everything and waiting for it lol.
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Post by enewman on Jul 10, 2016 12:00:24 GMT -5
I have $15 in my total price N my hunting arrow
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Post by enkriss on Jul 10, 2016 13:22:21 GMT -5
I have not found what ashby claims about single bevel heads to be true at all. They might be better on bone to help split but soft tissue i dont get the results he claims. No better than a double bevel head. I have not seen a single bevel able to twist going through more than 1/8 turn. I can get the same if not more with a double bevel and some helical on the fletch. I think a sharp double bevel penetrates better also. The forces are fighting each other with a single bevel. I think that has a negative effect on penetration according to my testing.
I also dont by the extreme foc. I have not been able to test it out really. Getting over 20% is impossible at my DL and draw weight. I think there is a sweet spot though and that is right around 14% or so..
I have read most of the reports and I disagree with some claims. Especially the single bevel claims.
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Post by whack on Jul 10, 2016 13:47:03 GMT -5
Heck I can only get 9% foc and I tend to blow through everything I shoot at lol
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Post by enkriss on Jul 10, 2016 14:00:20 GMT -5
Heck I can only get 9% foc and I tend to blow through everything I shoot at lol Not all of us can handle shooting 100lb dw at 31" draw and 800 grain arrows...lol |
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Post by killermidget on Jul 10, 2016 14:10:36 GMT -5
Heck I can only get 9% foc and I tend to blow through everything I shoot at lol Just think of all the creative things you could have been doing while you were wasting time posting that....... LOL |
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Post by enewman on Jul 10, 2016 15:37:26 GMT -5
I have not found what ashby claims about single bevel heads to be true at all. They might be better on bone to help split but soft tissue i dont get the results he claims. No better than a double bevel head. I have not seen a single bevel able to twist going through more than 1/8 turn. I can get the same if not more with a double bevel and some helical on the fletch. I think a sharp double bevel penetrates better also. The forces are fighting each other with a single bevel. I think that has a negative effect on penetration according to my testing. I also dont by the extreme foc. I have not been able to test it out really. Getting over 20% is impossible at my DL and draw weight. I think there is a sweet spot though and that is right around 14% or so.. I have read most of the reports and I disagree with some claims. Especially the single bevel claims. a single Bevel is for breaking bone. That is what it's design for. If only flesh is hit then in my opinion it's no better then any two blade double bevel. |
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Post by enewman on Jul 10, 2016 15:40:11 GMT -5
Heck I can only get 9% foc and I tend to blow through everything I shoot at lol Lot of people miss understand what foc is for. Part of that is do to dr ashby. FOC first is for stabilization. And the shorter the arrow the more you need. For my arrow at 24.5 in needs way more foc then a 28 inch arrow. It's all in the lever of the shaft penetration on comes after that. |
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Post by enkriss on Jul 10, 2016 15:44:36 GMT -5
I have not found what ashby claims about single bevel heads to be true at all. They might be better on bone to help split but soft tissue i dont get the results he claims. No better than a double bevel head. I have not seen a single bevel able to twist going through more than 1/8 turn. I can get the same if not more with a double bevel and some helical on the fletch. I think a sharp double bevel penetrates better also. The forces are fighting each other with a single bevel. I think that has a negative effect on penetration according to my testing. I also dont by the extreme foc. I have not been able to test it out really. Getting over 20% is impossible at my DL and draw weight. I think there is a sweet spot though and that is right around 14% or so.. I have read most of the reports and I disagree with some claims. Especially the single bevel claims. a single Bevel is for breaking bone. That is what it's design for. If only flesh is hit then in my opinion it's no better then any two blade double bevel. That is what i have found. However, according to Ashby hide and soft tissue will wrap around the head causing more damage. I have not found that to be the case. I have not found a single bevel to spin really though soft tissue. Through bone I have have to say the helix I played with performed the best but the bloodtrails and damage to soft tissue left much to be desired. If I was going for pure penetration I would opt for a double bevel like a GK or solid. |
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Post by enewman on Jul 10, 2016 15:58:25 GMT -5
a single Bevel is for breaking bone. That is what it's design for. If only flesh is hit then in my opinion it's no better then any two blade double bevel. That is what i have found. However, according to Ashby hide and soft tissue will wrap around the head causing more damage. I have not found that to be the case. I have not found a single bevel to spin really though soft tissue. Through bone I have have to say the helix I played with performed the best but the bloodtrails and damage to soft tissue left much to be desired. If I was going for pure penetration I would opt for a double bevel like a GK or solid. For me the helix is one of the best. But for soft tissue. It's not the best. Again that is not its primary design. But it's no better or worse then any other two blade then. I've had great damage on a red deer with a helix. Lots of trama I hunt with Zwickey heads. Never hit big none with it. I'm sure it will not make it. But I have busted spine on a 100 lb hog with a Zwickey. |
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Post by enewman on Jul 10, 2016 16:15:26 GMT -5
I have a video a guy sent to my phone that shows a 450 gn arrow with 28% I believe arrow shot from a 40 lb bow hitting think part of a hog scapula. But I don't know how to post
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Post by tsm213 on Jul 10, 2016 17:05:40 GMT -5
I have a video a guy sent to my phone that shows a 450 gn arrow with 28% I believe arrow shot from a 40 lb bow hitting think part of a hog scapula. But I don't know how to post Are u on Desktop or tapa talk? |
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Post by tsm213 on Jul 10, 2016 17:07:27 GMT -5
I think that most of the stuff that ashby says and builds is for people hunting large game with recurves or longbows. With those you definitely need all the help you can get.
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Post by enewman on Jul 10, 2016 18:03:47 GMT -5
I have a video a guy sent to my phone that shows a 450 gn arrow with 28% I believe arrow shot from a 40 lb bow hitting think part of a hog scapula. But I don't know how to post Are u on Desktop or tapa talk? Neither. Can I email it to you and you post it never er mind I can't email it either. |
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Post by whack on Jul 10, 2016 19:28:55 GMT -5
Heck I can only get 9% foc and I tend to blow through everything I shoot at lol Lot of people miss understand what foc is for. Part of that is do to dr ashby. FOC first is for stabilization. And the shorter the arrow the more you need. For my arrow at 24.5 in needs way more foc then a 28 inch arrow. It's all in the lever of the shaft penetration on comes after that. I understand foc. I'd like to be a lil higher than 9 though. That said I'll take 9 to be able to shove 684g over 300fps cause heavy going fast trumps the 9% foc |
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Post by killermidget on Jul 10, 2016 19:42:33 GMT -5
Lot of people miss understand what foc is for. Part of that is do to dr ashby. FOC first is for stabilization. And the shorter the arrow the more you need. For my arrow at 24.5 in needs way more foc then a 28 inch arrow. It's all in the lever of the shaft penetration on comes after that. I understand foc. I'd like to be a lil higher than 9 though. That said I'll take 9 to be able to shove 684g over 300fps cause heavy going fast trumps the 9% foc For field points 5-10% For fixed blade broad heads 9-15% You shoot killzones - Id say you are ok........ |
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Post by tsm213 on Jul 10, 2016 19:50:08 GMT -5
I think the distance also plays into foc performance. At 20 yards it's not really coming into affect. Step back to 70 or better and maybe a person will notice.
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Post by enewman on Jul 10, 2016 20:05:59 GMT -5
Lot of people miss understand what foc is for. Part of that is do to dr ashby. FOC first is for stabilization. And the shorter the arrow the more you need. For my arrow at 24.5 in needs way more foc then a 28 inch arrow. It's all in the lever of the shaft penetration on comes after that. I understand foc. I'd like to be a lil higher than 9 though. That said I'll take 9 to be able to shove 684g over 300fps cause heavy going fast trumps the 9% foc Holy crap. If I could shoot a684 gn at 300 fps I would be shooting a 950 gn at 250 fps and shooting everything in the head. That is a assume set up. No need for any help for anything for penetration. |
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